Yet, I believe in hell. In fact, I understand the necessity for hell. Moreover, I believe I can make a convicing argument that in order for God to be all loving, he must also judge evil. However, just because I understand hell intellectually, and can make an arguement for it apologetically, doesn't mean that I have to like it.
As many of you know, I have enjoyed drinking from the wells of many theologians who are often criticized as being liberal. I have blogged about how we should learn to spit out the bones in order to enjoy precious meat (not one of my favorite analogies, but it works). Recently, Rob Bell has once again taken heat for a book that is soon to be released (March 29th, 2011) entitled Love Wins: Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived. He claims that "eternal life doesn’t start when we die; it starts right now. And ultimately, Love Wins."
I have noticed a trend. Some of my favorite authors have been getting closer and closer to what is considered universalism (the belief that hell is empty, and that everyone is saved in the end). And I must admit something: I am drawn to it.
I would be thrilled if there was not hell. This is not because I am afraid of going there. I rest in the truth of the Gospel - that Christ has already paid the penalty for Sin. These guys are just taking it one step further: that Christ has actually paid for the sins (Sin) of all mankind. Now, if I am to be objective, then I must also admit that this is not entirely untrue. After all, that's basically what John 3:16 says: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life."
I want everyone to be saved from hell, but I also want evil to be judged. I can't have it both ways... can I? And something tells me that many of the advocates for an empty hell don't want to spend eterntity in heaven with Charles Manson and the like.
So yea, I like the sound of this book, but I am not convinced that it is going to be biblically true. Here's a video describing Bell's book, and you can preorder it here. What do you think?
12 COMMENTS:
Hey bro, I think that the universalistic perspective that you were talking about undermines our most basic instinct of justice as well as the nature of relationships.
In a relationship, if you get self-centered enough, you will start looking for flaws in your companion. Eventually, you will give yourself enough justification to leave, or worse, cheat. Is it not the same with God? If people indulge in sin enough, they will harden their hearts against God's loving rebuke. Eventually, God will let that person be. That moment, in my opinion, is officially hell. To go on through all eternity without God, to suffer whatever torment that person has prescribed for his/herself, is hell.
People can't stick the middle finger up at God and expect him to let them keep doing so. It's His way or the hellway.
Re-posted from the FB discussion:
It's a dangerous thing to manipulate, ignore, and try to interpret scripture based on who or what we WANT God to be. The way he states certain things in the video make me kind of cringe. As if the way he wants God to be is "this way" and THAT is what would make him a loving God. Concerning.
I understand the draw to what we THINK would make God loving, but this is the very reason we have scripture. We would all have our own interpretation of what is "loving" if we were left to our own devices.
We base what is "loving" on what we experience here on earth. But, we probably don't even have the slightest clue what LOVE really is.
I like the conversation we had at Tuesday night Bible study a couple years ago about whether God judges us or whether we judge ourselves based on what we choose. God set the standard and the standard is set according to LOVE. So, yes, LOVE wins...it wins through sacrifice, justice, and mercy alike.
I didn't watch the video, but in response to Erin I would argue that we do have SOME idea of what love is. We're told that God is love. We're told that we're made in his image, and so we see that all mankkind shares the same basic understanding of morality and justice and service and sacrifice.
I agree that if he's expressing his desire for how he wants God to be rather than to take God at face value, then he's walking a dangerous path. But if he truly interprets God in this certain way, then we aren't any different, are we? I mean, all each of us can do is interpret and act on our understanding. And in the end we all answer to God for our choices in life.
Jason, I can see the temptation to be drawn to universalism. I've recently wondered if God's love and forgiveness isn't more than we can imagine. As far as the quote, eternal life does start now, or eternity does anyway, whether heaven or hell, we are eternal creatures.
Like you said, spit out the bones. He has some great insight, but we have to stay grounded. Always. The word is our lamp.
If we base our idea of what love is on what we WANT God to be rather than what He in fact IS, then we are lost, though. That's what I was trying to say. Yes, we have some idea of what love is if we know God and are immersed in His WORD, but we as sinful creatures don't understand the depth of it or what it really looks like apart from Him.
I like what you guys have to say. I can't say that I disagree on any particular point.
I just feel like there's something there to learn, even if it ends up being complete heresy like most people seem to be predicting.
I will say this...
I am open to the idea. I am willing to be wrong about anything.
I think that God wants people to search for Him, to wrestle with these ideas just as much as we want to arrive at truth. For some reason, God wants seekers.
"24The God who made the world and everything in it... 25gives everyone life... 27God did this so that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though He is not far from anyone of us" (Acts 17:24-27)
What if (after reading the boook) it turns out that Rob Bell is merely asking questions, leaving them to hang in the air (which wouldn't surprise me)?
Are there any bad questions?
I guess a bad question would only come from bad intent. Is he TRYING to lead people down the wrong path?
Exactly, Jonathan. And that, I'm afraid, is what all the bloggers are really saying - that he is a "wolf".
Even John Piper's twitter yesterday ("Farwell Rob Bell") seems so NOT Christlike to me.
So, are we to simply reject those who don't agree with us on every particular? So what if one Christian brother believes that hell is empty! Are we to jump all the way to the other side and call him a wolf? Is he denying Christ?
Obviously, since none of us have read the book it is all mere speculation at this point. However, I have a hunch that he is promoting "Christian Universalism" - the belief that God is going to save everyone, even people of other religions, through the saving work of Jesus. (This should not be confused with pluralism, which promotes that there are many saviors, and all lead to the same salvation.)
In Christian Universalism, Christ's Gospel is so big/good that it extends to every sinner, even those who are ignorant this side of eternity.
Is this denying Christ? Is this anti-Gospel?! I am not yet convinced that it is. I think it definitely is a different way to view hell. Remember, even the great C. S. Lewis believed that the fire in hell was not literal fire.
We Chrstians have got to do a better job at discerning between wolves and sheep. There is one Shepherd, and he is not intimidated by curious sheep.
What do you mean by curious? Do you mean strange and odd? Or do you mean like a cat? If you mean curious like a cat, he doesn't seem to be asking the question, he seems to be TEACHING the answer to the question. And if that's the case, then he's in a position to be very careful with the answer he gives, as a pastor and leader of a HUGE Christian community. If he's misleading people to the wrong answers, then he's in trouble. If he's merely asking questions to create a "seeker community" as you recently blogged about, then that's something we should all be doing, even if it asks some dangerous questions.
Maybe the underlying question here is, "What is he trying to do with his book?" Is he attempting to lead people to a particular answer, and if so, what is that answer and what does scripture say about it?
As far as possibly being wrong about the answer, I have submitted to myself that he is a much bigger studier of the Word than I am. He digs deep into stuff that I have absolutely no understanding of given the amount of "schooling" I've had on the subject. He's probably in a much better position to come to a solid conclusion than I am given the amount of information he has at his disposal.
Again, that brings me to the fact that with knowledge comes responsibility. If he presumes to be a teacher, then he has the responsibility to take care with what he teaches and how it's presented. If he misleads people to false doctrine (and I say IF because I don't know), then he will have to answer for that...or maybe he won't, since "hell is empty". :)
(But then, why would there be a hell in the first place if it's empty? And that, then brings about a whole other set of conversations.)
We also have responsibility─to wrestle─Really wrestle with what he's proposing. Because what he proposes, I believe, drastically changes the way we look at our faith and the way we present the Gospel to other people.
@Erin
Rob Bell is a sheep. If we call him a "shepherd" we are mixing herding metaphores.
All pastors are people. All "lay people" are ministers of the Gospel.
My point is that I think pastors should be allowed to be "curious" too, asking tough questions, and digging for answers, and even processing such things out loud in community.
Yes, if he INTENTIONALLY leads others astray (meaning away from Christ/Truth), then that is on his head, of course.
Like you've said, it'll be interesting how this conversation fares after we've all read the book. I, for one, can't wait.
Reading "A New Kind of ChristianitY" by Brian McLaren recieved this same kind of "drama" when it was first published. And that book has forever changed the way I view just about everything, for which I am very grateful.
In my life, it has paid to read the books that traditional evangelicals demonize.
What does this mean? Well, I'm convinced it isn't much different than when Christ walked the earth. People don't like change. Christianity, and orthodoxy is changing. This is going to be really hard for some people.
It is my belief that God is about to reveal so much more of Himself to us!
I agree, J. I also read the scripture in James 3 as a warning to all who "presume to teach" that they ought to be careful. Just a conversation piece that sort of tags what we're going on here.
I'm really interested to see what sorts of serious digging comes out of us reading the book and processing as we go along. I would love to see this become a study group piece for us to pick apart together and sift through, "spitting out the bones and chewing on the meat" together as a community.
Fear of "new thought" or, like you said, curious sheep, WILL pull the Church apart. I've seen churches fall apart because a pastor wanted to dig into Dan Brown's book and see what was in it!
Looking forward to come lively discussion and seeking.
*some*, not come... :)
What a great idea, Erin. I think we'd be guarenteed to experience growth! Gosh, I miss that. July sound good? :D
Post a Comment